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Post by Void on Nov 9, 2004 22:09:18 GMT -5
Well, here it is. Write down what you believe the government should be like. As broadly or as specifically as you desire. I'll type mine up pending completion of homework.
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Post by Faust on Nov 22, 2004 12:32:17 GMT -5
I would run the government like it is today. I very much despise the thought of Anarchy. Democracy is probably the best way. Oh, I forgot, we are not all in America. But, still, Democracy is the best answer.
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Post by Noe "Ghost" Carlson on Nov 22, 2004 14:03:24 GMT -5
I would be a dictatory who's word is law, but try to run it without pissing people off.
I've learned from Gregory George Bush that you can do insane things and still be popular.
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Post by Zinn on Nov 22, 2004 14:33:15 GMT -5
I think his name is George.
I have no idea what I would do. I don't think any particular system of government works, and I wouldn't want to be a dictator, since I am human, and entirely corruptable.
I think I would just want to reform our current system.
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Post by Void on Nov 24, 2004 23:29:39 GMT -5
Pretty much how I feel about the matter.
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Post by Josef Stalin on Nov 29, 2004 12:57:35 GMT -5
The current system doesn't need reform; it needs to be completely rewritten! What this world needs is a Socialistic government to help look out for the common good. A government which gives the needs of the people a thought BEFORE they think about what will put more money in their pockets.
Capitalism corrupts people. It turns them into even more greedy filthy dogs than they were before they had a job.
I am as sure of this, as I am of anything else; Capitalism will fail in the next 50 years, resulting in the fall of all western civilization and the crushing defeat of the Illegal American Regime that we have built up these past 200+ years. When that happens, it will be the military coups and the revolutionaries that will decide the fate of the western world.
Hopefully by that time we will have realized all the contradictions that Capitalism creates in a civilized society.
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Post by Zinn on Nov 29, 2004 18:52:58 GMT -5
Hmmm, I actually had a discussion about the potential collapse of western civilization as we know it with a friend recently. He pointed out the growing trend of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer, which usually spawns the conditions for revolution, according to previous political precidents.
On the other hand, American culture's main control is through the media. I believe that America's attitude of "tommorow you too could be a billionaire," no matter how unlikely, keeps the majority of the unruly masses in check. I think Americans have been conditioned to be lazy, fat, purposefully ignorant, and overly materialistic in order to condition them to prevent a revolution.
Yes, I know it sounds like a conspiracy theory, but look at the current trends, examine pop culture, and then form your own conclusion.
I don't see why the American government is any more illegal or legal than any other government on Earth.
If there is a revolution, I highly doubt that it will be a socialist one. The socialist movement right now lives on grassroots politics, and doesn't have enough numbers. Many people are still sore about the Cold War, and too ignorant to see the difference between the Soviet Union and real socialism.
Furthermore, other movements in the United States are way more powerful and way more freaky. I think if there ever was a revolution, the United States would probably be thrown into anarchy for a long time. Not the good kind of anarchy either.
A socialist government is no more or less likely than any other form of radical government to form out of the ensuing chaos of a collapse. I believe that for a stable socialist government to work, the change has to be slow and transitional.
I hate the term civilized. All it takes to be civilized is a set place to live. As long as you aren't wandering around and have a village or whatever, you are civilized.
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Post by Josef Stalin on Nov 30, 2004 4:04:06 GMT -5
I know man! It's no conspiracy theory, it's an actual conspiracy. Here's the truth about the Illegal American Regime:
It says the three branches of government are Legeslative, Executive and Judicial. In reality, the REAL branches of the government are The Military, The Corporations and The Inner Circle. They run the cycle that seems to keep America running.
The Inner Circle finds countries to invade. They gather round and decide which country would be the most easy to conquer without it seeming like another Grenada. When they find a country, they dig up dirt on it. If they can't find any dirt then they just make stuff up in photoshop.
Once The Inner Circle declares war, The Military's funding increases. The demand for military weaponry is higher and so the stock of The Military goes up. Meanwhile, The Corporations invest in The Military. Thus, they benefit from the war by gaining more money when the stocks go up.
Once the war is won, The Corporations benefit from the spoils and get insane amounts of money. Once said money is in the hands of The Corporations, they continue to run the steady cash flow into The Inner Circle. The Inner Circle then uses that money to continue to find countries to invade and THAT is why I refer to it as The Illegal American Regime.
My friend is an Anarchist. He keeps trying to convince me to join his cause and help motivate the other Anarchists, but he can't seem to tell the difference between MY reasons for hating the government and wanting to overthrow it and HIS reasons.
I have to disagree, a Socialist government CAN work. Look at Norway, #1 on the HDP chart for quite some time. It is a very Socialistic government.
I also see the fact that Americans are idiots kinda seems to further promote the risk of revolution. Not an organized one, but a revolt nontheless. Taking up arms and killing any government official possible. With The Rich getting richer, The Poor getting poorer and The Middle Class being squeezed into poverty, it won't take long before America is the equal to the Soviet Union's poverty.
I too hate it when people can't distinguish between actual Socialism and what the Soviet Union had. I just want to smack those people...
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Post by Raz Nili Ze'ev on Nov 30, 2004 11:12:07 GMT -5
Those people make up most of America. My point is that people are too lazy to get off of their couch and do anything, and if they do want to do something, it probably won't be constructive.
Violence won't solve anything. You could sniper the president, burn down the senate, and poison the supreme court, but then you'd be just as bad as they are. Probably worse.
As for your idea on how the government works, well, that is certainly conspiracy theory. I am an intern at a senator's office, and that is most certainly not the way things work. Yes, there are lobbyists, and yes, money talks, but things are not run by them. People elect their own leaders, althought results are often somwehat questionable (read Greg Palast's thing about this election and the electronic voting machines if you haven't already.)
If things worked that way, we would be in a constant state of war. Since Sept. 11, we sort of have been, but we spent quite a few years without anything like that happening.
Then again, branding this "The War On Terror" when such a thing is impossible and unwinnable, is rather silly.
You can't kill an idea.
I don't think a violent revolution or a socialist government will happen any time soon. Maybe we might get socialized medicine in the next twenty years or so. Maybe. Socialized medicine isn't all it's cracked up to be anyway. Speaking as someone who lived with such a system for eight years, it sucks unless you have a chronic illness. Even then, usually people that do go south of the border, because things are more advanced down there.
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Post by Josef Stalin on Dec 2, 2004 8:41:05 GMT -5
Hey, I was simply stating my theory. As for the electronic voting machines, I don't have to read a post to know what REALLY happened. 28 of the 29 states with electronic voting machines and NO PAPER TRAIL FOR A RECOUNT voted for Dubyah. The company that manufactured the voting machines also donated large sums of money to the Bush & Cheney campaign. Coincidence? I think not...
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Post by Mikhael Nadyezhda (Mischa) on Dec 2, 2004 10:45:30 GMT -5
A socialist revolution isn't supposed to happen in places like Russia in the early 1900's, it's supposed to happen in places like the United States, where capitalism has industrialized the country to make it possible to socialize medicine. Like I said earlier, if the country has poor socialized medicine, that's the fault of the country short changing said program, and not the fault of socialized medicine. If a revolution were to occur so that the wealth was distributed equally amongst the civilian population, then socialized medicine would be world class, and I doubt anybody would be going north or south of the border to get "more advanced health care".
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Post by Void on Dec 2, 2004 11:36:32 GMT -5
Pure socialism cannot work any more than pure capitalism, a melding of those and other forms of government and finding a medium ground is what I favor. We in America do have socialist programs, medicare, education, etc., we should first focus on improving those programs. Why sit around praying for some bloody revolution that for all intents and purposes probably will not even happen in your lifetime? Why not use your energy for the good of society to effect positive change right now? It is not impossible, and it is very much within the power of everyone who cares enough to try.
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Post by Josef Stalin on Dec 2, 2004 13:13:54 GMT -5
That's what I'm doing. A revolution will occur in our lifetimes, I can guarantee it personally.
To build up on what Mikhael said about the whole health care thing, American health care may be advanced, but we are getting overcharged and under treated. The medical system in a Capitalist government makes no sense. The desire for money outweighs the desire to help others. In short, it is in no way beneficial to a doctor when a patient gets better and stops seeing them.
Psychologists and psychiatrists try to keep their patients insane so that they can keep seeing them for $75 an hour. They prescribe every medication they can think of because they get payed extra for it; should a patient suddenly get better, it means the doctor is out another several hundred dollars for the month.
That is why a Socialist healthcare works, free health care for the patients and the doctors get payed the same; whether or not they do see patients. This means they will be more compelled to treat patients with honesty and general care.
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Post by Void on Dec 3, 2004 0:58:13 GMT -5
Actually, that has more to do with the fact that the Medical Model is still widely accepted. Society believes that everything can be cured by a medicine or by a pill, where in actuality it requires much, much more. The prefered method of treatment is a combination of drugs and therapy, but due to society and the way our medical system is set up it is difficult for such a thing to occur. Our medical system needs to be reformed, certainly, but we don't need revolution to do it.
That being said I do believe that medicare is one of the things that should be governmentally funded.
And with regards to the revolution, what is your guarantee?
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Post by Zinn on Dec 3, 2004 21:50:10 GMT -5
OK, firstly:
1) People in Canada that have enough money and have chronic illnesses go to the United States. The United States has better quality, if not quantity. Canada isn't exactly a poor country. The problems aren't related to funding. They are related to the way the system works. For example: doctors are paid per patient instead of by the hour. Therefore, they go through as many patients as quickly as possible. Secondly, there are fewer specialists in Canada. Thirdly, the waits are immense, and there is rarely enough space. I understand that it is wrong for people to miss out on healthcare, and that everyone needs it, but frankly, I guess it is a quality vs. quantity issue.
2) In regards to any sort of revolution within our lifetimes: I really, really doubt it. Your guarantee is sort of worthless anyway, considering you are someone that none of us know, on a computer somewhere, speaking almost anonymously.
3) Speaking as someone who has made the rounds regarding psychiatrists, psychologists, and mental healthcare in general: you have no idea what you are talking about. I admit, pills did not work for me, but that does not mean they are worthless. Some people have benefitted from using them, or people wouldn't use them at all. Mental healthcare professionals are highly trained, and many even know what they are doing. They don't just randomly try things and hope they work. I agree that some drugs, like ritalin, seem to be overpresecribed, and the symptoms to the 'disease' seem to match normal child behavior, but that does not mean that all psychologists and psychiatrists are out for money. Most people decide to enter the mental healthcare profession because they find the work interesting, and/or they care about people. There are ways to make a lot of money that involve waaay less school. Have you even ever been to see a psychiatrist or a psychologist? They do nothing of the sort. There is no insta-cure for things like depression and other problems. Psychologists and psychiatrists are just around to help you deal with your problems. They are people you can talk to with full confidentiality, and they give you strategies for dealing with life. Furthermore, I find those comments insulting, since my mother is a therapist. Nobody suddenly gets better. Also: only psychiatrists are qualified to prescribe drugs, and they aren't paid extra for it. They are paid for the evaluation appointment, to see if you need them or not.
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