|
|
Post by Void on Dec 3, 2004 23:13:02 GMT -5
Just in case some of that was directed at me, I am in no way saying that the drugs are a bad thing, far on the contrary I know they do, in fact, work wonders with some people. However, I do also know that reform to the system is necessary, but you already mentioned pretty much all of the reasons so I'll not reiterate them.
|
|
|
|
Post by Zinn on Dec 4, 2004 12:53:04 GMT -5
No, I was responding to the above statement made by Mr. Stalin.
|
|
|
|
Post by Josef Stalin on Dec 5, 2004 19:51:35 GMT -5
In response to your argument, Zinn;
1.) Doctors here don't exactly give you a thurough analysis either. If not for my father's paranoia, I'd be dead from Pneumonia at age 1. The doctors didn't see anything wrong with me, but my father demanded an X-Ray. Turns out I had water in my lungs and I DID have Pneumonia. I don't call that very careful analysis! I don't call that quality health care!! I don't call an absence of the flu vaccine quality health care!
2.) Technically, all cyber-revolutionaries do this. Freak Boy, Somedude, Carpe Mortem; Digital-Anarchists, Socialist Revolutionaries and flat out Psychos. But they do their own thing to spite the government over the internet.
3.) Don't even get me started on the state of our mental health care. You know they didn't even want to analyze me! They just sort of said, "Yep. He's nuts. Toss him in the State Hospital and give me money for my evaluation." Turns out that about 3 Psychiatrists later; I was no more insane than the average human male... greedy b------s...
I'm aware Psychiatrists are the only doctors who can subscribe medication. I was assuming everyone knew that and that it wasn't going to be turned into a statement that was almost borderline insulting towards my intelligence. I have, so far, seen 2 Psychologists and about 5 Psychiatrists. I hate it when they give you pills for no reason!
Doctor: Ok, we're going to give you some Xannax.
Me: What's it for?
Doctor: It calms you down when you're having a panic attack.
Me: ............................... waittaminut--when did I ever have a panic attack? I've never had one!!
Doctor: Oh... really? I could've sworn that you did.
Me: NO!! I haven't!!
Doctor: How about some Adderoll then?
Me: DO I HAVE ADD?!! NO!!
Doctor: Toppamax?
GOOD GOD!! When will they get it through their heads; pills don't solve everything. In fact, half the time they just mess you up even more. We need to move away from the d**ned pill cult! Away from the mindset brought on by municipal America that pills can cure everything and if you become a pill popper, it's your fault and not the doctor's. Free our minds!!
|
|
|
|
Post by Zinn on Dec 5, 2004 21:14:29 GMT -5
1) You could have sued for malpractice. That's why doctors are so motivated to run so many tests. These oversights are even worse in a socialized medical system, because you cannot sue the state for malpractice. Instead of harming the offending doctor, you harm the medical system for everyone else. That's the other reason Canada's medical system sucks so much. They also don't have enough doctors, so they can't fire people. It's like the Vatican and pedophile priests. They just shuffle them around.
2) What is that a response to?
3) The only ways to end up in the psych hospital are harming yourself, attempting suicide, being commited by a parent/guradian/court order because you are a threat to yourself/others, or having a serious breakdown so you can no longer care for yourself. Being in the psych hospital is entirely up to your parent/ guardian unless there has been a court order. Also, they have a set of criteria for determining cases. The hospital is the last resort. It took me two months to get anti-depressants, and that was after sitting through a two hour appointment with a psychiatrist and taking a written exam, and after some stuff on that list happened, and I'm not saying what because I feel that that question is too personal, even if the internet is almost anonymous. They don't like to give out those drugs unless they have to, especially with the heat they have been getting from the FDA over some of the side effects. I don't know why you've seen so many psychologists and psychiatrists. Most people see the same one for years, and psychiatrists have huge waiting lists, even in a capitalist system.
|
|
|
|
Post by Void on Dec 5, 2004 21:23:18 GMT -5
Why is your entire argument against our medical system based on anecdotal evidence (i.e. your own experience)? My experience with the medical system is quite different, actually. America's medical system is actually one of the best in the world, it just has several kinks that need to be worked out.
|
|
|
|
Post by Josef Stalin on Dec 5, 2004 23:35:33 GMT -5
Well, personal experience is where I derive my opinions from. I'm not an anti-bush citizen for no reason; I base it on personal experience via friends and family. I'm good at arguing points of view through my eyes in this way. 1) You could have sued for malpractice. That's why doctors are so motivated to run so many tests. These oversights are even worse in a socialized medical system, because you cannot sue the state for malpractice. Instead of harming the offending doctor, you harm the medical system for everyone else. That's the other reason Canada's medical system sucks so much. They also don't have enough doctors, so they can't fire people. It's like the Vatican and pedophile priests. They just shuffle them around. 2) What is that a response to? 3) The only ways to end up in the psych hospital are harming yourself, attempting suicide, being commited by a parent/guradian/court order because you are a threat to yourself/others, or having a serious breakdown so you can no longer care for yourself. Being in the psych hospital is entirely up to your parent/ guardian unless there has been a court order. Also, they have a set of criteria for determining cases. The hospital is the last resort. It took me two months to get anti-depressants, and that was after sitting through a two hour appointment with a psychiatrist and taking a written exam, and after some stuff on that list happened, and I'm not saying what because I feel that that question is too personal, even if the internet is almost anonymous. They don't like to give out those drugs unless they have to, especially with the heat they have been getting from the FDA over some of the side effects. I don't know why you've seen so many psychologists and psychiatrists. Most people see the same one for years, and psychiatrists have huge waiting lists, even in a capitalist system. 1.) We probably should've, but my mom is a doctor and she refuses to allow either myself or herself to sue a doctor because she HATES malpractice suits. 2.) You said I do this anonymously and I said so do all the other cyber guys out there. Freak Boy for example has an entire Xanga dedicated to bashing religion and Bush. It's actually very well researched. www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=MichaelVonDoom3.) Dr. Sterling brought up the whole "I've decided he's insane. Let's commit him." So he made a bunch of money for doing an analysis and my mom commits me. The reason I've seen so many Psycholigists and Psychiatrists is I've been in therapy for a while. While in SASH I saw 2 Psychiatrists and a Psychologist. The Psychologist quit, the Psychiatrist got fired and the other Psychiatrist... well she was hot and I was young so my d**n male hormones made it so that I allowed her to analyze me. When she decided that I was not insane and that there was no reason for me to be commited, my dad told my mom to get me out of there. She agreed, but under one condition... therapy. Initially I saw a psychologist, Dr. Burton. He saw my mom as well and my father said that created a confilct of interest, so now I see a Psychiatrist weekly. Currently, all he seems to do is perscribe medication. I'm on Cellexa, Adderol, Xannax and Toppamax. None of which are doing SHYTE!!! There, that's my explanation as to why I hate the d**n pill poppers and why I've been to so many different doctors. |
|
|
|
Post by Void on Dec 5, 2004 23:44:32 GMT -5
However, that doesn't mean that what happened to you happens to everybody.
|
|
|
|
Post by Josef Stalin on Dec 6, 2004 1:09:08 GMT -5
Granted, but the fact that it DID happen is proof that it CAN happen. Besides, with all the new medical conditions of the world; doctors hardly ever know just WHAT their patients have. They can make educated guesses and they can make guesstimates, but for the most part they just prescribe what they think will help and hope to high heaven that it doesn't kill the patient. Because, if if they kill the patient, there goes their meal ticket.
Even the few good doctors out there get chased out of the system because that one time they make a mistake, Malpractice lawsuit! BAM! They hate the system and quit on the spot. Only the greedy, the ones who make so much money that malpractice won't hurt their careers and the ones who enjoy fighting in the courts with tooth and nail, are the ones who stay in the business.
|
|
|
|
Post by Void on Dec 6, 2004 2:09:27 GMT -5
I think your view is a little skewed on this whole thing.
First of all, Socialism won't magically correct all of these little bugs in the system. What happened to you could happen to anyone. At the point we are at right now, there is much we know, but what we do not know could fill several libraries. At this time we are doing the best we can with the knowledge we possess.
Now, as far as doctors trying to get their "meal ticket" I hardly think so, there is no evidence of this that suggests all or even a significant portion of the doctors are after their next paycheck. Frankly, as stated before there are easier ways to make money that require a lot less education and time. If someone was out for the money there are a million other things they could do to get it. As I said, the system is far from perfect and the malpractice suits are one of the things wrong with it, but a socialist revolution will hardly fix those problems.
|
|
|
|
Post by Zinn on Dec 6, 2004 16:19:47 GMT -5
Freak Boy, this is some modding. The issue of the character Freak Boy is off topic here. Either post in your join form, or PM Void, me, Grove, Bassarov, etc.
As for malpractice, I feel that it has its pros and cons. Malpractice is supposed to make physicians more careful by threatening them with special legal action if they fail to preform their duties properly. The problem is, that people sue for stupid stuff in America. The other problem is that it makes phyisicians reluctant to prescribe meds, make descisions, etc. for fear of being wrong, and getting sued, which is often harmful in and of itself.
I doubt you would be taking migraine meds, ADHD meds, anxiety meds, and anti-depressant SSRI's if there wasn't something wrong. Also, if your meds aren't working, you should tell your doctor that. They'll either switch you, or tell you to try to stop taking them for a while to see how you feel. I think that your opinion is rather skewed. I also agree that socialism isn't going to magically fix the problems you perceive in the system, real or otherwise.
|
|
|
|
Post by Josef Stalin on Dec 6, 2004 16:54:20 GMT -5
Maybe not magically fix them, but it will certainly help them. If doctors don't have to worry about where their next meal is coming from, because the government provides each meal, they're less likely to sign up strictly for financial greed. Under a socialist system, despite the results of the past with awful technology, America would be unstoppable. We have the 8th highest HDP ranking, it only suffers for literacy rate, crime rate, illegitamite births etc. etc. But technolgy here is amazing and, under a socialist system, it would be available to all. Every school would have computers, every hospital would have those new birth x-ray things that let you see a near 3-D image of your child where you can look at it from all angles... just think for a moment...
And in response to the medication thing; the only medication helping me at all is Toppamax. I'm a little more fuzzy with names than I should be, but at least I don't get those bad-arse headaches anymmore. And I'm not taking Adderol for ADHD, it's for ADD plain and simple. I'm not hyper, I just tend to drift off during Algebra I and a few other classes. But that's beside the point.
|
|
|
|
Post by Zinn on Dec 6, 2004 18:12:05 GMT -5
And where would all of that come from? A magician's hat?
Look, doctors don't become doctors just to make money. There are a thousand ways to make just as much money that involve way less work.
Also, most hospitals have MRI machines. They're kinda fun actually. I have to say that is my favourite medical exam, because not only does it make cool pictures, but it doesn't involve anything invasive. Ahem, but that's besides the point...
In case you haven't noticed, we already have socialized education in the United States. Teachers are paid by the state, all of the property is owned by the state, etc.
|
|
|
|
Post by Josef Stalin on Dec 6, 2004 22:29:43 GMT -5
Yeah, I like the MRI machines too. Their fun, but not all healthcare plans seem to cover use of it. Just look at the HMO!! Grrrr... HMO....
Our education system is not as socialized as one would like to think. You pay an admission fee when you sign up, even in public schools you pay extra in addition to the cash you pay in taxes to get in. In a socialist system, you would pay an insane amount of taxes, but you would get free education out of it along with housing and food, utilities and other basic needs. The only things it wouldn't cover would be material posessions like DVDs and video games. That much could be bought with the money you DIDN'T give to the government.
|
|
|
|
Post by Void on Dec 7, 2004 0:02:45 GMT -5
There's a place like that. It's called France.
|
|
|
|
Post by Josef Stalin on Dec 7, 2004 0:17:08 GMT -5
And Norway. Don't forget Norway, Numero Uno on the UN's HDP charts this year.
|
|
